Let's talk about the 996

"AM3R" (AM3R) 01/12/2014 at 19:22 • Filed to: Porsche

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Any owners/ex owners/people that know about them? I understand that these are pretty undesirable for a 911, and that IMS/RMS failure will always be in the back of my head.... but holy depreciation. I'm also one of the few that doesn't hate the headlights, well at least the turbo headlights.

Anyways let's talk all about the Porsche 996. I'd love to have some discussions about them and learn a little more.

Brian Silvestro > AM3R 01/12/2014 at 19:25

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I think the IMS/RMS failure is the only bad thing about them if you can look passed the headlights, and at around $20k, I sure as hell can.

Aaron James > AM3R 01/12/2014 at 19:28

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I don't know enough about it to properly inform you but I did look into it myself a couple years ago. Some years are better than others and there is an overwhelming amount of content on them in various forums and so forth. Do your research and go for it. It's a way for us mere mortals to live the dream of 911 ownership.

AM3R > Brian Silvestro 01/12/2014 at 19:29

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The best insurance against the IMS is changing the LNE bearing.. And the labor for that is easy enough while changing the clutch

Brian Silvestro > AM3R 01/12/2014 at 19:30

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So most 996's = NP.

AM3R > Aaron James 01/12/2014 at 19:32

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Yeah I researched them ALOT over the summer, and than gave up on it after not finding any local examples. The 996 is the only way I'll be buying a 911, and it's still unlikely that it'll happen as I'll have to sell my E90. But it's just sooo tempting

AM3R > Brian Silvestro 01/12/2014 at 19:35

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This beauty has 48k on it and is for sale for $21k in Georgia.. NP

Aaron James > AM3R 01/12/2014 at 19:36

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Oh I know, I'd like to have one myself, maybe when the kids are a little older. Or a lot older and out of college which is more likely.

Brian Silvestro > AM3R 01/12/2014 at 19:42

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So clean.... http://www.cars.com/go/search/deta…

AM3R > Brian Silvestro 01/12/2014 at 19:56

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I want it so bad haha... Such a clean car

AM3R > Aaron James 01/12/2014 at 19:57

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The back seats are actually pretty useable for kids... Well they are if your wife asks haha

alexotics > AM3R 01/12/2014 at 21:11

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I was on the hunt for a 996 Aero for 2.5 years before finally finding one in my area. Paid $896 at the Porsche Centre for a full inspection including a compression test. Even though the car had a ton of miles (driving from Vancouver to Cali on a regular basis), the engine and gearbox came out immaculate. I purchased it and even though I can't drive it in winter time, I couldn't be happier.

Come to think of it, I've had a blast just spending my weekends working on it. This weekend I took the front off and cleaned the radiators and condensers (common issue of dirt buildup and slight overheating in 996s). Quite a tedious job but very rewarding. It'll save me $3,000 down the road in labour and parts for new radiators as they rot and rust if left unattended.

At the end of the day, I say go for it. But get it tested by the Porsche dealer and be patient for the right one to pop up. I'd avoid anything older than a 2000, ideally 2001. Also remember that high mileage can be a good thing in terms of being well past the IMS/RMS issues. Good luck!

alexotics > Brian Silvestro 01/12/2014 at 21:13

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If you're worried about an IMS disaster, opt for a well maintained higher mileage 996.

Brian Silvestro > alexotics 01/12/2014 at 21:20

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Makes sense. This way by the time you get the car, the issue was already dealt with.

AM3R > alexotics 01/12/2014 at 21:26

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First off I just want to say you have a beautiful car. My ideal 996 would look just like that, maybe a different set of wheels.

Also how complex is it for someone who's never worked with porsche engines, or any rear engine car before to DIY the basics on a 996 or a 996 turbo? I'm able to DIY just about anything that doesn't require a lift on my E90. I appreciate the wisdom, and please post more pictures of your 911!!

alexotics > Brian Silvestro 01/12/2014 at 21:26

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Exactly.

You want to steer clear of garage queens. IMS issues could still rear their ugly head, and any low mileage car can have some seriously expensive issues as a result of not regularly being driven. So.. DOUBLE NO to the low mileage. Medium to high is the way to go, especially for 996s. Mine has 180,000+ kms, and recent compression test came back immaculate. Go figure.

Brian Silvestro > alexotics 01/12/2014 at 21:34

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Ha! You must love it!

Biapilotaceman > AM3R 01/12/2014 at 22:34

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If it's anywhere near as easy as the 986 Boxster (same engines basically), it's SUPER easy. Just did an oil change today, as a matter of fact. Easy peasy.

alexotics > AM3R 01/12/2014 at 23:47

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Thanks for the kind words! Here are some more pictures:

What's not to like about the wheels? I love them! They're the MkI GT3 wheels and I wouldn't have it any other way :)

In terms of engine work, it sounds like you're much more knowledgeable than I am. All I know for sure is that a lift will massively improve your life if you're about to tackle a serious project. Mainly because it'll get you to swear less/ bend your body and arms in funny ways.

JasonStern911 > Biapilotaceman 01/13/2014 at 01:03

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Define basics. Oil, filters, etc. are easy, but the spark plugs were a pain in my ass on my old 986! But then maybe I have fat hands. :)

JasonStern911 > AM3R 01/13/2014 at 01:24

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If you're smart and patient, the 996 is the best car you can get for the money. I bought mine to replace my 986 after it hit 100k miles (without the IMS blowing up, cylinder walls deteriorating, car getting egged for ugly headlights, etc.). It took me over a year to find it, but I ended up getting a 996 with 18k miles, the IMS and IMS bearing previously replaced under warranty, with full documentation including annual oil changes for $23,800. At that price, I could pay the local independent Porsche specialist to replace the motor with a used motor in the event of catastrophic engine failure and still have paid less than buying a new BRZ. That patience came with some downside. I would have preferred a C4, ideally a later model with PSM. But ultimately, I knew the car was the one when I first saw it, so options were less of a concern than getting the right one.

Before finding mine, the path I was intending to go down was to get one with 30-60k miles for low $20ks, then spend to have the IMS bearing replaced, water pump replaced, air/oil separator replaced, v-belt replaced, and clutch replaced. That would still put you at less than BRZ money, but with no concerns about the common problems. One thing you learn about owning a 911 is that it tends to be more cost effective when you do drop the motor to do a bunch of preventative repairs/replacements while the motor is out. For example, the air/oil separator is only like $200 to replace when the motor is dropped, but it's a $600/800 repair if that is the only repair being done.

P.S. Don't get black as black cars are a pain in the ass to keep clean.

P.P.S. The 996 gets a bad reputation. Most girls don't care about the headlights - they just see newer Porsche and think you're well off financially as you can afford a newer Porsche. So if you want to get girls, a 996 is actually better than a 993.

P.P.P.S. Don't be that douche that uses a car to try to get laid.

JasonStern911 > Brian Silvestro 01/13/2014 at 01:26

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The IMS doesn't fail - the IMS bearing fails. Expect to replace them every 50k as required maintenance and it is less of a problem. Replacing the clutch and air/oil separator at the same time is probably a smart investment to keep long-term maintenance costs down.

JasonStern911 > alexotics 01/13/2014 at 01:30

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Great write-up.

One correction: The early (mostly 3.4L) 996s have a dual row IMS, and thus are less prone to IMS bearing failure. The bearing should be replaced every 50k miles, ideally with the clutch and the air/oil separator. The 3.6L 996s have a single row IMS and should have the bearing replaced ASAP. In both cases, the IMS bearing should be replaced every 50k miles for preventative maintenance reasons.

In all cases, the IMS bearing failure is still significantly less common than an apex seal blowing in a Renesis motor.

JasonStern911 > AM3R 01/13/2014 at 01:32

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You say that jokingly, but they are significantly more usable than 993 and earlier back seats. Just don't date women who are or have kids that are fat/tall/husky/etc. :)

JasonStern911 > alexotics 01/13/2014 at 01:41

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Garage queens with proper documentation are probably fine. We're not talking about a Renesis engine that had to have its warranty extended to avoid a class action lawsuit here. If the IMS bearing is a concern, just budget ~$2k more to have the bearing upgraded when you purchase the car.

Biapilotaceman > AM3R 01/13/2014 at 02:09

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Plus there's a multitude of tech articles here ranging from simply jacking the car up to doing an engine swap. Really.

Pelican Parts 996 Carrera/986 Boxster Tech Articles

Biapilotaceman > JasonStern911 01/13/2014 at 02:12

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I haven't done it yet, but I have it planned. Shouldn't be too hard if I take out the fender liners— and I have skinny hands. ;)

Boxster Sparkplug Change—PelicanParts

alexotics > Biapilotaceman 01/13/2014 at 04:25

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You'll need skinny hands to get to the inner most spark plugs on each side!

alexotics > JasonStern911 01/13/2014 at 04:29

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I had no idea that 3.4s were less prone to go kaboom. Interesting. Do you own/have owned a 996 yourself? Mine has 186,000 kms but produced a clean PPI and compression test for the engine and gearbox. Perhaps high mileage is indeed best?

AM3R > Biapilotaceman 01/13/2014 at 09:19

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Thanks! I'm probably gonna spend my Monday reading through them all haha

AM3R > JasonStern911 01/13/2014 at 09:27

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Thanks man! I appreciate all the help. The only women I'll be picking up would probably be my mom, who would yell at me for getting rid of my reliable E90 that has lights under the door handles haha (I joke but it'll probably be true)

I've also heard that it is smart to just do a lot of maintenance at once, because you'll already have the engine out. And WOW a 996 with 18k for $23k! I plan on DD mine, should I go for a high mileage one as I'll be piling the miles on anyways, I've read of some people doing that on rennlist

AM3R > alexotics 01/13/2014 at 10:45

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I don't dislike the wheels, I just want something a little more concave. I wish I could get a lift but there's no chance that'll happen haha. If I get a 996 I would be DD'ing it, so taking it in for every single problem would hurt my pocket pretty badly. DIY'ing as much as I can will be a good way to save money for unexpected repairs/mods. Lots and lots of mods haha

AM3R > Biapilotaceman 01/13/2014 at 10:48

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Thanks! Good to hear

unfortunately I have large hands haha

JasonStern911 > AM3R 01/14/2014 at 13:43

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I don't have any personal experience with higher mileage 996s. The closest I can come is just saying that my 986 (same motor but smaller displacement) had over 104k when I sold it, and it ran great in daily driver form.

From what I saw while looking, the sweet spot value-wise for 996s (and 986S') tends to be around 60k miles. Just remember at that mileage to factor in the price of an IMS bearing replacement into the purchase price if it hasn't already been performed.

If you do go the higher mileage route, then having a compression check done during the pre-purchase inspection should the car pass the initial pre-purchase inspection. Just note that some shops charge more than they should to pull the plugs, screw in a compression tester, and turn the motor over, so that might be money better spent towards acquiring a lower mileage model. Also, if you do the compression test yourself, make sure all six plugs are out when testing to ensure an accurate reading.

JasonStern911 > alexotics 01/14/2014 at 13:54

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Yes, I have a 99 C2.

The early 3.4L motors had a dual row intermediate shaft (IMS). In order to reduce noise at start-up, Porsche switched to single row bearing for later engines. Thus, the folks at Renntech recommend replacing the IMS bearing immediately for single row engines, and at 50k/when the clutch is replaced for dual rows. The IMS bearings were supposed to be sealed from the factory; however, these seals leak and the bearings ultimately become lubricated by engine oil. Thus, it's highly recommended to change your oil every 5k with a Porsche approved oil that has a high zinc and phosphorus content.

Honestly, the mileage concerns me less than how the car was maintained. The cars are old enough that rear main seal leaks on early cars likely have all been addressed by now. And if you view replacing the IMS bearing as scheduled maintenance every 50k miles instead of a potentially catastrophic design flaw, it's not that bad. For added assurance, I run a magnetic oil drain plug, and when I change my oil, I cut my oil filters in half and comb them with a magnet to ensure that no metal fragments have made their way into the oil. You can also send your oil in for chemical analysis, but that seems excessive unless you intend on putting a lot of track miles on the car.

alexotics > AM3R 05/07/2014 at 19:16

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Did you end up buying a 996?

AM3R > alexotics 05/08/2014 at 09:24

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I've broadened my search to include 997's. I've been test driving A LOT lately. I can't find any manual 996's near me that aren't cabriolets. Last Thursday I was test driving a 997 c2s, it was a blast!

alexotics > AM3R 05/08/2014 at 11:45

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997s are nice, but 996s are a bit more grassroots. A middle ground between a 964 and a less exciting but more usable 997 I find.

I asked because I've put my 996 Aerokit Cup for sale. Special price for a fellow Jalop, just gotta get it to you from Canada. I'm in Vancouver, half an hour from the U.S. border, plus the Canadian dollar is extremely cheap for you guys right now, about 0.89 cents to the dollar.

http://vancouver.en.craigslist.ca/van/cto/440934…

enriver > Brian Silvestro 12/29/2014 at 17:57

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I have never known a 911 series that did not have some kind of endemic failure. The issue with the 996 is the more than 175,000 of them were built and sold, therefore, the number of failures is greater. But I am willing to bet, proportionally no more than most other series. I have one with 60K miles. No leaks of any kind, no oil consumption either and annual Blackstone oil analysis ensure that any problems will be caught well ahead of catastrophe. Just drive it and enjoy it!